Violence, personal responsibility and genetics

I'm receiving emails and voicemails from people reacting to the latest Faith and Ethics piece, in which Tom Clark of the naturalism center argued that Stephen Stanko, conivicted murderer and rapist, should not be put to death because he, like the rest of us, is primarily a combination of his genetic makeup and the environment in which he grew. He doesn't say Stanko had no control, just that he didn't choose to have the genetic makeup he was born with or to be born into the environment in which he was born. Clark explained how he would deal with the Stankos of the world, though some readers felt he was making excuses for criminals. I say we have to acknowledge that we are in a very real way products of our environment and genetic makeup -- but I'm not willing to say that absolves us from any responsibility at all, or any appropriate punishment. I think Clark agrees with that sentiment, just that he believes the criminal justice system should be less about punishment and more about trying to make people better, at least that's what I took away from our discussion.

``I have just read the article about Stanko, and the dialogue with Tom Clark. If I understand the article correctly, I have to say I agree with you. I do agree that environment plays a small roll in later behavior, but it is not the ultimate source of the decisions we make. And as far a genetics, I feel that it is an excuse to fall back on for any behavior. If an individual does well, genetics is never brought up, but for all the negative behaviors, we have to blame something. It makes us all feel better as a society to think someone on his own accord could not possibly choose to commit the horrible crimes we read about. What was Hitlers excuse, Stalins excuse,even our own excuse for what happened to the Native Americans and the Black Slaves? Did all those in power at the time have bad genetics or did they grow up in a bad area? No, all of the above mentioned were striving to satisfy some type of lack in their life. Whether it was pain or fear or some self-esteem problem they did what they did and they were not genetically inclined. Look at all the obese individuals. Now it has come down to, "Let's sue McDonald's, they are making me fat." No responsibility on me, they put a gun to my head and made me eat all those fries.I was genetically incline to eat those fries. The reason I feel qualified to make these statements is that I had a drug problem for a large part of my life. I really don't think there is a drug that I haven't done. It took me five times in rehabs to finally get away from it. I blamed my parents and everyone else I could think of, but the bottom line is that no one forced me to do them. This is not to say that growing up in bad situations does not play a role, but it is still up to everyone of us to make decisions. If the genetics and environment theory holds,then Tom Clark needs to explain to me why, I have shot dope with the poor, with the rich, with not so smart, with the very smart, with people who have addiction problems in their backgrounds and with people that have none of that. With people that were raised in religious households and with atheists. With people whom are very attractive and one s that are not. I think by now you get my drift. Of all the conversations I have had with people with addiction problems, the pain, fear and the feelings of LESS than have always come up. So this leads me to believe that if a person can forsake everything in search of a drug,why not murder and rape to fill some type of void or low self-esteem problems. POWER. I tried for years to clean up. It wasn't until I started prayer that I became successful at it. I met a person that was addicted to running at one time. He overcame it with prayer and told me if after all this time in different rehabs if I wanted to overcome, Pray. I can't explain it but it worked. I at this time feel that there is no such thing as an addict. I know that sounds strange, especially after what I have been through. But the reality is pain, fear and self-esteem is behind all of the bad choices we make. I challenge you or anyone else to prove me wrong. Our ego (self-esteem) is the cause of more problems than we care to think about. Getting back to Stanko, whether our system is right or wrong,no matter what he wants to use for an excuse, I'm willing to bet, that at some time in his life he heard murder had some huge penalties. Just like I know if you speed and get caught there will be a ticket as a penalty. Also, I'm behind doing away with the death penalty and just keeping them locked up if Tom Clark will financially support that himself.'' RALPH

Comments

[Robert Meek]

I knew someone from a family riddled with drugs, alcohol, incest, molestation, almost any kind of abuse you could imagine.

This person was molested several times, from age six onward, by brothers, father, etc.

He has immense problems, and always shall, but one thing he said I shall never forget.

He said he could see how, if he CHOSE TO, how he COULD have BECOME ANOTHER child molester, how the POTENTIAL was IN him.

But he said, "I made a CONSCIOUS CHOICE to NEVER do that," and he NEVER has.

He is now close to 50, and I believe despite his many problems, that he NEVER will do THAT - repeat what was done to him.

We most certainly DO have CHOICE, and with CHOICE that mean FREE WILL, and ACCOUNTABILITY.

[Ralph Short]

I just cannot accept the premise here. The fact is he is a man over 40 with multiple violent crimes. In the latest he murdered two people, thought he murdered another and raped the person he thought he murdered. The arguement about genetics and environment and ultimately freedom if we can rehabilitate him is in my view totally without merit.

1. If it is genetic then there is nothing we can do and we should therefore improve the gene pool accordingly.
2. If it is environment then someone should tell us "retribution" types just what occurred in his environment that was so unique that only he from hundreds of thousands of others who suffered similar or the same abuse, etc. manage to lead productive lives. I have never seen one explanation that explains it. The only thing I ever see them explain is why this or that individual became a monster. They never explain why all the others with smilar or worse environments do not become monsters.
3. If the explanation is genetic then we are back to point 1.

He deserves the death penalty and the quicker the better.

[chocomlk]

Genetic and social engineering was one of the premises behind the book Clockwork Orange. Read it.

[chocomlk]

Another good post Ralph. You should have your own column.

[patricia robinson]

everything we do is by choice, this is a true story, I wrote from a police show
********************************************


Sane/Insane
When I was a boy there was so much confusion in my world--I was caught up in my momma' s emotional swirls..
She brought many men into the house--when ever she did I had to be quiet as a mouse..
There were so many men they’d almost run into each other--I was told to call them uncles by my mother..
She drank until it made her mean and ugly--that’s when she started to rape me..
She’d pull me into her bed--and for every second of the day and night I tried to get those pictures out of my head..
I wanted to understand why her love was like a hurricane--she’d always say she loved me, think she was insane? ..
There was no peace in our house as a child--I felt her love was full of denial..
As I (grew-up) even the sexual act disgusted me--14 yrs. old, and I hated what I turned out to be..
From 7 to 14 I was raped everyday--she made me do all kinds of things, I had no say..
I hated women who tried to get close to me--as I got older, I hated what she’d done, my life was crazy..
I’d sit and watch other kids and their dads--praying to God those parents I had
We had a dog almost ready to have puppies--I watched her have them, it made me crazy..
So as she licked and loved them-I sat there getting crazier and crazier within..
So I started to kick the dog, as I did a peace entered my brain--my God I asked, am I insane ? ..
As I kicked the dog I saw my mother’s face--as she screamed out, at that second for death I acquired a taste..
Each time I’d kill it brought a peace to my brain--once I had peace I asked myself was I sane or insane? ..
Many women gave me peace for many years--I found another peace when the prison system put me here..
They said 35 women I did kill--I did it for peace not a thrill..
My mother and her selfishness was the blame--because of her I would always wonder . . . am I sane or insane ? ..By: Patricia Robinson--8/25/06--2am

[Ralph Short]

Patricia, this was a very interesting and memorable post. I accept that it is based on a real person. I am not sure where you are on the issue since you prefaced the poem with we do have choice and ended with a question regarding sanity.

My own view is the insanity factor is totally overdone. Also, is what this person claims to be true actually true? Probably no one will ever know. In the end we are still faced with some central truths that are not disputed and that is there are simply many people who have dificult and harrowing upbringings yet a vast majority of them end up leading productive lives. They are survivors, they empathize with other human beings, they make distinctions and they observe their surroundings. A very few end up as monsters and no one can explain it. I believe it is a host of things which includes good vs. evil.

I work in Richmond Va. some weeks and a recent local story caught my interest. A young man was shot and killed in a drug deal gone bad. The guy that was shot had a record as a dealer. He was somewhere between 20 and 25 I believe. This same individual left 2 children with a girl he never married and two other women were pregnant from him. So, we have four children who are fatherless, their father was a loser, their mothers were not exactly real particular.

So, these are circumstances that are profoundly pitiful and if any of these children end up in the criminal justice system I am confident a lawyer will harken back to their childhood and tell everyone this is why he or she did what they did. I would also bet that most if not all of these children will figure it out and rise above it. They will become productive citizens. In the same time frame we will see some middle class or wealthy child, with an apparently healthy upbringing become a monster.

Frankly, I don't know the causes or solutions. The only thing I know is letting them use the justice system for decades to delay a judgment is completely wrong. I also believe that if the justice is timely then it does discourage some. If that saves just a few then it is a good thing.